Coaching

Sure, senior executives all have coaches, but if they are so effective, why don't more supervisors, managers, and directors have them? Two business psychologists discuss the value of coaching, finding the right coach, and making this valuable resource available to more people throughout the organization.

Transcript

Dr. D.  0:09  
Hello, and welcome to the realm. I'm Dr. D, I bring the strategy.

Dr. K  0:13  
I'm Dr. K, and I bring the psychology. We are business psychologists and your guides to the executive realm where we bring strategy and psychology together. So

Dr. D.  0:21  
you can bring your best to your C suite, your teams, and your customers. Today we're talking about executive coaching, why it is important for all levels of the organization, what to look for in a coach, and what steps can maximize your results. So let's get to work. Dr. K, it goes by many names, executive coaching, leadership, coaching, life coaching, performance, coaching, whatever you call it, it is a powerful tool to look beyond yourself and find new levels of greatness. If it's done, right. Of course, in your mind, what is so powerful about coaching?

Dr. K  0:54  
Oh, coaching has a lot of different meanings to it. And to be honest, coaching just has a lot of roles. And one of the biggest roles is is that we, you know, coaches, whether it's a sports team, or an executive coach or a life coach is that we are mentors, we are also people that help to guide and we are action-oriented, we are there to help you, whether it's a group, an organization or an individual, we're there to help guide and give you different opportunities to improve and grow with what you are trying to improve and grow with.

Dr. D.  1:34  
It makes sense. I like to think of coaching as a little mix of that conscience in the back of your head. But also, you know, when you get those ideas in the shower that just kind of pop into your mind, and you go, Oh, I never thought about it that way. I think a coach is the personification of that somebody who will say something that resonates with you. And I just know, it seems so obvious now that you said it. And I think a coach can really help you look beyond yourself and see the world in a slightly different perspective, that relationship as it develops over time the voice becomes stronger, understanding who you are better can be that conscience and that nudge and that epiphany that you might be looking

Dr. K  2:14  
for AHA, or the light bulb moments for people? Absolutely.

Dr. D.  2:18  
I mean, that's one of my favorite parts about coaching is when I'm talking to somebody, and they look and they get that little kind of twisted, puzzled look and go Hmm, it seems obvious now that you said it. But yeah, that makes sense. You can just tell there's an epiphany there,

Dr. K  2:31  
as coaches, to an extent, we don't have any stake in what is happening for you. So we get this big, huge picture of what is going on. So very objective, when you are the person that is getting the coaching, whatever your genre of coaching that you're getting is you are very in it, you're subjective, and your viewpoint or your lens is a lot smaller, it's focused. So as a coach, we help to, you know, open up that lens, open up that perspective for different opportunities, or different things that are available to you that you may miss when you're in the midst of whatever it is that's going on. Now, you're

Dr. D.  3:11  
also a licensed therapist and a coach, how do you approach the two things differently? Well,

Dr. K  3:17  
for me, you know, I guess the best way would be to kind of differentiate between the two. So with therapy, we are, you know, a lot of times we do go into the past, because we're looking to see what is still happening within the person's, you know, with inside the person, we're looking to see what maybe past experiences or hurts or what have are still there. And it's also very centered around what you think what you've experienced, what you are feeling with coaching, we're more present or future-oriented, we are very action-oriented. And also it's not about it's not just about what you are experiencing as a coach, I may depending on what's going on, I may get some ideas from people that you work with to figure out what may be happening that you may not notice because as you know, as a leader or as an employee that might be going from one level to another, they may not notice their attributes that may be causing some issues. So I will also take in what others are what others opinions are or viewpoints more is a better way to describe it. And then I can put all of that together. So it's very they separate in the fact that they you know, one's a little bit more personal, more emotional based, and the other one's more with the wanting to grow, wanting to move forward. Very like as I said earlier, very action-oriented.

Dr. D.  4:45  
One thing that professional coaches sometimes might be inclined to do is to lean in on what I would call armchair therapy. These are not licensed professionals who tend to dig deeper beyond where they should is a professional coach and I think that's where really dangerous. I think that's really an important element of being a coach is not extending yourself too far, you develop really deep and meaningful relationships with the people that you're coaching. As a coach, I can say that that is true, there is a temptation to want to try to help beyond what the realm of my capabilities are in the realm of my understanding, and I am honestly quite fearful of anybody can hang up their shingle and call themselves a coach, whether they were a manager in an organization, or they just feel like they want to try coaching, I really worry about the damage that can be done. When a coach pushes themselves too far. Same thing with a therapist, a therapist is really great at getting to the emotional issues to getting at what's under the surface, whether you're talking about behavioral therapy, cognitive therapy, humanistic therapy, or  EMDR, which I know you specialize in, you can only do so much there, you can't be with them, and hyper-focus on that part of their life, which is their business, you might touch on it, you might explore the underlying things beyond it, but you really can't go there in the same way that you can as a professional coach. And this person should never be the same person coach who is helping you with the professional aspects of your life, thinking maybe about your financial future and touching on some of your ambitions and things that you want to accomplish, they can't get into what's under the surface, what might be driving some of those underlying behaviors and help adjust some of those, they can help point attention to where there are challenges. But it really takes a therapist to get into the sticky parts of emotionality and history to try to resolve those things I've seen really excellent executives get coaching and thrive, but still, something's missing. And I always thought that piece was there. I think what's really interesting is the combination of coaching and therapy to separate people working together on your behalf,

Dr. K  6:59  
if during a coaching session, it comes out that there has been maybe your coach recognizes that, okay, you have some anxiety, you know, where does that stem from, and oh, it stems from when I was a kid, and that was, that's where the coach would have to stop and say, I hear that, you know, maybe talk to someone about that, because that's going into the past. And that's not where the coach is, as a therapist, if you you know, a lot of times, therapists not all, but they don't have the education or the knowledge in the business realm. As a therapist, if there's a lot going on within the business, you want to be careful of stepping on toes trying to navigate what's going on in this person's business like now if they're like, I have anxiety, oh, it stems from this. Okay, let's work on that. And that may help with the anxiety in the business. But you want to be careful stepping on the toes of the business world itself, if you don't have the education, the knowledge, the experience, what have you in that realm?

Dr. D.  7:54  
Well said, as a coach, I often am listening for things like to give an example if there is an executive who is a really good executive, but something sets them off something triggers them, they lose their patients really quickly, maybe they have the tendency to raise their voice unexpectedly, or they go from being hyper aloof to micromanaging, there's oftentimes something deep in the emotional background or in the history of that person, then I'm not qualified to touch but I recognize that in talking to that person, that disproportionate reaction is often coming from some other thing deeper in their mind. And I will say I'm hearing a theme like this type of behavior really sets you off, what do you think drives that? And then oftentimes, they say, Oh, I don't know, you know, it, just it just really pisses me off. And then a week or two later, when we meet again, they'll say, my former relative or a relative that I don't get along with used to do that. And I'm like, Look, I think that's really brave, that you recognize that. And I appreciate that. I think you should talk to a therapist about that. I'm because I'm not the right person, because they trust me, and they feel like it was uncovered because we talked about it, I also have to know my limitations and say I am not the person qualified to talk about that. The reality is, I do not want to go there because I wouldn't even know where to start and things that you bring as a therapist are very different tools than I have. I think a coach when you're selecting a coach or an organization is bringing in coaches, they have to be very selective and understand that that coach understands the boundaries of where their practice ends, and where they need to bring in a mental health professional to help with all the stigma about mental health. It's often very difficult as a coach for me to have a conversation with that employee without making them feel somehow broken or damaged. And I'll spend a good session really explaining why I'm not qualified to deal with the issue and why I think they would really benefit from pursuing a course of action. I won't pressure that but I will be very deliberate and say I think one of your action plans should be to find a therapist or if you already have a therapist explore this theme a little bit because I think it might be affecting you at work and might be affecting you elsewhere. I think if you address some of those underlying issues with a qualified professional, you might see a difference here at work. And I'll still help you work on the symptoms of that and how to find patients and things so that you don't have an outburst or whatever it is. Yeah,

Dr. K  10:13  
absolutely. And that's a, you know, a good point of finding a good coach. And one of those things is for the coach to know their boundaries. As a coach and a licensed therapist, I have to know my boundary. And as well know when to cut certain parts off at a habit, you know, I'm like, Okay, let's go look at your past and stuff like that. And as a coach, that is not my role. Even though I am licensed and qualified, that is not my role. So when I speak to people, as a coach, you know, and they try to go back there, I have to remind them as well as remind myself, okay, this is not, you know, this is not what we're here for, and then recommend going talking to someone else, you know, and it's, that's one of the things with coaching is, is that we're dealing with the now and what you want to want it to look like in the future, not how it's looked in the past, because how it looks in the past that it doesn't matter, we can't change that

Dr. D.  11:02  
a coach is really helping a person think beyond themselves, think about how they fit in within the culture of their team members around them, their peers, their colleagues, their superiors, their employees, what they can affect and influence, and what they can't, which battles to fight, all of these things are decisions that a person has to make and evaluate for themselves. And a coach is not there to change the environment around them, it's to help that person thrive within the environment, we started talking a bit about selecting a coach. And I think that's a really important thing that gets underappreciated by organizations that are so many people who just put up a sign or they get some, they get some simple certification that gives them the air of credibility, or they may have been in a managerial role or a senior leadership role. And think that there is particular philosophy for leadership that made them successful makes them a viable executive coach, there's theory and education involved. And you can't really self-study for these things, a rigorous certification process or some advanced degree, like a master's degree in organizational psychology or a Ph.D., I always recommend that for executive coaching, that person should have a Ph.D., they should have leadership experience, they should have some business experience in leadership, and they should be a Ph.D. level executive coach, if you're going to expose your best talent to qualified coaching, that is going to be impactful and effective, then you need the right person, somebody who can bring theory, somebody who can bring practice somebody who can bring pragmatism and practicality, not just theory as well. So ideally, you'd find somebody who is either ICF certified, or one of the big certifications and not these little fly-by-night, anybody can become a life coach overnight type of certification. The best credential is a Ph.D. in business psychology or organizational development or IO. Psychology is a business focused Psychology program from an accredited university,

Dr. K  13:04  
I would agree, absolutely, you're looking for a coach, whether it's individual or organizational. In addition to that, you know, because anybody can say that they are a coach, that's easy to say, it's what you bring, you know, what you bring to the table. And you know, I don't want to discredit anyone out there that has done well with less education than others. But something that organizations want to and individuals want to keep in mind is that there is a level of expertise that you receive with these high-level certifications or high-level education. There's also a level of professionalism. And what you get in these education, whether it's the Ph.D. program, or the certification is, is that we also bring in evidence-based reasoning and solutions and skills that have been put out there that have been developed and retested and retested to show that they weren't Now in addition, that a coach may bring those in they the coach, also, it's important for the coach to teach these skills and to be able to help integrate the skills for the person and

Dr. D.  14:11  
I think staying on top of what's developing. There's a lot of research going on all the time around coaching and being able to bring new theories and new techniques and new assessments to bear to help their clients and as a coach continuing to stay on top of the research, I think a Ph.D. in organizational development or business psychology, organizational psychology, industrial organizational psychology, these are all really good credentials to have to say, this person. Not only do they have the ability to do the hard work and understand the theory and apply the practice, but they're able to do deep-level research and they're able to do critical thinking they have this is not a slapdash process of getting a Ph.D., the ICF certification and the similar you should also do research on what the certification requirements are an ICF certified coach has to do hundreds have hours of coaching under a supervisor they have to do a lot of work they have to do CPE credits to learn what newer methodologies are coming out. So I think that's a really good way to vet a coach. So the other thing to look for from an executive coach is not the executive coach, but the firm. How many coaches do they employ if you're hiring an executive coach into your organization, you should be able to give employees a selection of a person that they feel comfortable with, you should have gender or race diversity, a panel should have at least five coaches, please can pick who is the right person for that a person that works well for Dr. K might not be the person that works well, for dr. D. Gotta give people the sense of choice rather than what happens often in an organization is you know, I know Janie Janie comes in and starts coaching John, she did a great job with John. So I'm gonna give Jamie the opportunity to coach a lot more people. So all of a sudden, Janie is not being as effective because one, she knows too much about the organization and the individual dynamics and is lost her impartiality, but she's not the right fit for the other three people on the team. When you're selecting a coaching firm, either have a panel of coaches that you can call upon, or even better hire a coaching firm that has multiple coaches on staff.

Dr. K  16:14  
It is important is the ability of the coach to build rapport, that is awesome, you know, but it's a little bit different in therapy, you know, a lot of the work is based on the client when it comes to therapy. I you know, as a therapist, I can't force you to practice the skills that we talk about, it's very, you know, it's a little bit more I can be there for you guide you and all that but it's a little bit more on the client. As an executive coach, we want to be more present, we want to be engaged, you know, checking in maybe allowing, you know, quick text check-ins or quick phone call check-in to say, Hey, I tried this skill today, it went well. Awesome. I tried to skill today, I got a little lost five-minute phone call. Oh, that's where you got lost. Okay, here, try this, individualize it to you. So another part is yes, it's awesome if you find someone that you can talk to about what your what's going on at work, but if they're not present during your learning of the new skills, placing them into a goal-oriented action oriented a step by step protocol, if they're not there for that, and they're not there for the integration of the skills, if they're just like, okay, there you go by and let me know how it goes. That's not a coach, that's a buddy, that's just kind of giving you some advice, you want a coach that's there from start to finish.

Dr. D.  17:28  
I also think it's important when you're selecting a coach to understand what methodology they use. There are lots of frameworks out there that coaches use if a coach cannot explain how they go about coaching, what the theory is behind their coaching, then that's a warning sign. The other piece is what tools do they have around them? How do they capture goals? What other tools and information do they have available? Is there a web portal where they can log on and track their goals? Do they have assessments that are available, where they're doing some formalized assessment of personality or certain traits, like Strength Finders are the Hogan assessment or proprietary system that they use within their own organization. But what's important is that they can along with their credential, that they bring the right tools, the right framework, the right methodology, and they should be able to articulate that fairly easily and have a deep conversation about why they chose that approach and where they get their tools or why they decided to use a particular assessment over another and all of those things should be part of the interview process in the selection process of selecting a coach just don't hire your buddies, because they used to be an executive and decided I'm up for something different. I want to start coaching people that's, that's great, but they should go through the work to get the right certification, set up the right tools and really understand the theory of what they're doing. This is not something where you stop doing your job one day and decide to be an executive coach and turn around and do it tomorrow. It takes real work just like it takes building any career

Dr. K  18:54  
as we're talking about this. It's okay, when do we need an executive coach? When do we need to bring a coach in that depends on the organization that depends on the individual, you know, with an organization if there are major changes happening within your company, that's a good time to bring in a coach either an individual coach or a you know, a team, a coaching company, a group for group coaching as well. Yes, absolutely. If you you know, there's mergers and acquisitions or if a new executive is coming into an executive who is going to bring in different approaches and different ways of doing things that is an important time to really highly consider getting an executive coach or a team of coaches if as an individual and whether you're going to do it on your own or the company's going to take care of it a time to do that is if you are transitioning from one level to another that's a good time to consider getting a coach and or coaching team if you need specific skills development. You know, your coach may not have may not know what skills you need when you bring them into your coaching session. These are the skills that I have to develop to move to this position right. That's when a coach is helpful because they know what you're talking About, they know what you need to move you up. Also, if you're just looking to resolve specific business-related issues, you know, I worked with someone that used to do really well with talking in front of a group at work, and then all of a sudden started getting anxious and nervous and their, you know, their mind would go everywhere and they started getting fidgety. So we worked through that better understanding what was going on realizing they felt judged. And we worked through that, because that was what was happening now gave little skills of what to do prior and within a couple of weeks, they were able to just go right back to where they were before bringing in a coach, there are multiple reasons to consider it. And if this is your business, if this is your career path, investing in yourself is highly important

Dr. D.  20:42  
up change management, m&a job role changes, I think those are all really great reasons. And you know, another reason for selecting an executive coaching firm is many of these firms also do culture assessments and can help with change management and transformation management, they can bring expertise beyond just the coaching realm if you hire right, and one of the other things that I noticed is that people tend to hire executive coaches for one of two reasons. Either someone is a high performer, and they want to bring them to the next level, or they want to demonstrate that they're investing in them so that they don't leave for an employee is deeply struggling. The challenge is that somebody who is struggling may not benefit from executive coaching, which might be a waste of money, you might want to put them on a performance plan, or you might want to have them work on a very limited engagement of six weeks to try to stem whatever the deepest challenges and get an assessment. But most coaches, most of the coaches that I know, that are high-performance coaches tend to not work with really struggling employees, because sometimes you can help them overcome some specific challenges. But usually, what happens and I've been in this position where I've been coaching somebody, and they're like, I'm really struggling in the organization, and I work through it with them, and they're like, Yeah, this is not the right culture. This is not the same company that I joined, it's different. Now I was put into a role that I'm not comfortable with, or my team was forced on me, they merged departments and I had to take over a team that I'm not comfortable with, I either don't gel with the employees, or I don't really understand what they do, and it's well beyond what I am. And oftentimes it's well, you know, coaching is not going to help that person, they just need to find a new role. They they they're not a good fit. If they have destructive behaviors, they don't need a coach, you need to get the proper behavioral assistance, right? If they're if there's harassment or loss of temper, or yelling, and employees, those types of things are beyond the realm of any coach, don't hire a coach to try to support that you can hire somebody to do an evaluation of them and do it 360 around them to help you understand what your legal risks are. But a coach is not going to help that person a high performer. Yeah, a coach is going to help that person marginally the best people to coach are the people sitting at the desk in management roles every day, your directors, your managers, your supervisors, they don't need a weekly coaching session, a monthly coaching session us every six weeks or three weeks coaching session, some tools that are available to them, a good coaching organization will have tools that can say you know what, you've got a team of 50 managers, were going to bring in 10 coaches to support those 50 managers, we're going to put you on a schedule of one coaching session a month. And we've got other tools that we can supplement activities, online goal setting videos, things to augment those things in between coaching sessions so that those once-a-month coaching sessions feel more meaningful, you will start to find the employees who don't generally get access to coaching really value that as a benefit and see the organization investing in their whole professional growth, they become loyal to the organization. And since so few organizations do that they'll stick around, and you'll start to see patterns emerge from employees who might have flown under the radar becoming high performers. And you might spark some new leadership potential in someone that you didn't see before. And it only took that nudge of that conscience, that Aha voice in the back of their head to say, hey, maybe you should think about this a little bit differently. Or maybe you should open up and have that conversation with your boss about your goals. Or hey, you know, if you resolve that interpersonal relationship with her, you might actually get farther and you'll start to see talent emerge in places that you hadn't. But if you only apply coaching to your high talent, high performance people then you miss out on developing the real potential in your organization and raising the bar for everyone and a good coaching organization can find a path to get broader coaching for everyone without breaking your high performers are already high performers can help get them to the next level your middle managers they will eat it up they will love that you're investing in them and you see a future with them at They have access to a professional coach who's going to actually sit and listen and understand and learn who they are and help them get to their next level of performance, what you really want to do is, is match the best coach with the right credentials and backgrounds a thought process and understanding of the person that they're about to coach and a coachee, who is into the experience and is going to participate and is going to engage part of that is up to the coach to make it interesting, and make sure that they're bringing value in every session, and that they're not just sitting there. You know, it's the old psychology Joe, well, how does that make you feel? And then they say something, well, how does that make you feel? And then they say something? Well, what do you think you should do about that? A coach should have an opinion, a coach should bring perspective, a coach should say, I believe, perhaps the best approach for you is to move in this direction. Is that something that feels right to you? What other alternatives? Are you considering? A coach should be pragmatic, they should not just say, Okay, I want you to sit and meditate for an hour and think every day about your future, that might be a thing. But it should also be, I want you to write down some things, I want you to write an article, I want you to take this assessment and evaluate it, and we'll talk about it next time. I want you to read this and come back and have a discussion about there should be really pragmatic, practical things that come out of coaching, beyond just filling out worksheets, or doing these mental exercises or what I think is lazy coaching is putting it all on the coachee to think through the solution, the coach is there to think and formulate and develop a strategy and have an opinion and a point of view. Absolutely.

Dr. K  26:40  
And you know, I always bring in some sort of sports metaphor, a football coach can't tell their quarterback which way to go and how to maneuver you know, which, you know, am I throwing up in my thrown to the side am I you know, ducking and diving and all that stuff. But a coach can give you a perspective of okay, this is what the other teams doing. This is what I've noticed from watching all their reels. This is my idea. This is you know, here's a couple of plays that you can do, how you're going to make that happen is how the coachee or the quarterback is going to do it. Because you never know what the other team is going to do. So the coach is there to guide to provide give some actions and you know, all of that and also to help hone in on the skills and then the part of the coachee has put them into play, put them into action, come back and say this work. But this didn't work. How do we fix the didn't work part?

Dr. D.  27:32  
I love that analogy because the coach is on the sidelines and has prepped them and is there for support and can give some guidance if it's needed. But all the real work happens in between the game the coach is there to support to develop to help them think through and develop the plays to develop the strategies to help them think beyond their limited worldview and think about their competitor or think about the other players on the team. Well, well. Great. So we talked about the power of coaching. We talked about the types of coaching, and how to select a coach who should get coaching good, productive conversations. 

That was a great conversation Dr. K. And to all of you, Thank you for joining us on this journey to the realm. Thank you so much. I'm Dr. D.

Dr. K  28:11  
And I'm Dr. K and we are looking forward to your next visit to the executive realm.